#25 Ravin Jesuthasan – How to navigate in the world of work without jobs

Hello! Welcome to the CC Transformation Podcast. My name is John Guziak and together with my guests we will talk about what is the new dimension of leadership, how to activate digital organizations and lead us and our organizations toward the future of work successfully. How can we truly future-proof our organizations today? Let's start our joint adventure. Let's reimagine the future together. Witam z powrotem na C-Suite at Transformation. Nazywam się John Guziak i mam przyjemność, aby dzisiaj z nami był world futurist i osoba, która otrzymuje tak dużo napisów na temat fantastycznego książki, którą bardzo polecam. To jest Ravin Jesuthasan, który jest z nami dzisiaj. Ravin, dziękuję bardzo, że przyjechałeś do nas.

Cześć John, miło Cię poznać. Ravin, jesteś futurystą, autorem kilku bestsellerów. Jesteś także członkiem World Economic Forum. Chciałbym znać trochę o Twoim backgroundu, zwłaszcza dla naszych młodych słuchaczy. Co w tym świecie doprowadziło Cię do tego świata pracy i futuryzacji? Thanks John. I think I would characterize my journey like we talk about in work without jobs as one of perpetual reinvention. I'm a retreaded finance guy who started in finance, moved into strategy consulting. Przeszedłem do konsultacji humanitarno-kapitalistycznej.

Zdjęciem moją prawdziwą cieszącość i pasjonę jest rozwiązywanie mojego pasjonu finansowego. Jestem analizatorem finansowym. Uwielbiam kłócić swoją własną portfelię. Jest to trochę hobby. Używanie tej logiki i dyscypliny, w związku z tym, jak firmy zajmują się swoim najważniejszym asetem, czyli swoimi pracownikami i swoim talentem. Names mentioned in the world of work without jobs. Names mentioned in the world of work without jobs.

We've seen that with the agile movement. And so that was one marker. The other was, you know, growing, proliferating automation and that has certainly increased with the infrastructure now that enables AI, as we both know. The other was the fact that work was increasingly being democratized Names mentioned in English Names mentioned in English Names mentioned, John Guziak, World Economic Forum, John Boudreau.

Czy to powinien być pracownik w pracy, czy to powinien być talent agilny, czy to powinien być pracownik w firmie, freelancer, itd. Kolejna sprawa to, jak kontynuować redukcję kosztów pracy, by pozwolić talentowi przepływać do pracy. How to navigate in the world of work without jobs Actually taking these ideas and asking the question of how do we allow our nurses to flow to the top of the license, to do the things that brought them into this profession, to do the things that we value the most as opposed to

Names mentioned in the world of work. Names mentioned in the world of work. One of things that's interesting you just mentioned with that is I'm curious to be able to kind of unbundle that job as a nurse. Did you find, or working with Providence, did you find that it was easier for people who were outside of the job, who were able to see the actual job and what was it that could be, for example, as you said, that could be automated or that could be transferred or, you know, could go to something else other than what the nurse was doing?

Ale co z teksturą tego? Czy musimy mieć... Names mentioned in the world of work without jobs. Yeah, it's a really good point. And what we've seen, John, is tremendous progress the last few years with some of the talent marketplace providers like Eightfold and Gloat, as well as talent intelligence providers like SkyHive, helping develop these taxonomies.

Wiesz, na przykład, gdybym powiedział, że mogę mówić po polsku, Within about two seconds of you and me talking, you would know that I couldn't. We don't need me to go do a specific test of my Polish language fluency to be able to do that. That's an unnecessary burden. And I think this is where organizations need to be very nuanced in thinking differentially about skills in terms of where is the burden of proof so significant that we need these sort of assessments etc. versus where are there other things that we can infer those skills. There are so many algorithms that can do that now, but we can infer those skills from the previous experiences John has had, the previous projects he's been on.

Has he worked with diverse teams that would suggest that he's able to communicate with empathy and care and concern, etc. I think there is a This is a highly nuanced approach that doesn't lend itself to what many organizations traditionally do, which is a one-size-fits-all risk mitigation approach that creates such an onerous burden on the organization to validate every single skill to the same level of detail and precision. Nie, absolutnie. Jakieś razy widzieliśmy 80 umiejętności, a lider, który jest odpowiedzialny za wybieranie tych umiejętności, jest po prostu zaskoczony tym. Myślę, że, jak powiedziałeś, jest dla nas bardzo ważne, aby to było proste.

Names mentioned in English Names mentioned in English You know, I always say this to my client, this has to be C-suite led and HR enabled. There are many organizations that fall into the trap of, you know, oh, this is an HR initiative. HR can run off and go do this. No, you absolutely need the C-suite to lead on this. And, you know, Unilever is a company I've worked with for many years. There are case study in the book. And the thing that they've done really well as they've Names mentioned in the world of work without jobs.

Trzy z nich, które myślę, że są szczególnie relatywne. Pierwsza jest, do punktu, który wyraziłeś, mamy decydy, jeśli nie wieki, Names mentioned in the world of work without jobs. Names mentioned Ja jestem w jego P&L, ale chcę iść na projekt z nim, bo on jest fantastycznym rozwodnikiem ludzi. Kooczuje i mentoruje ludzi, z którymi pracuje, i sprawia, że oni są o wiele lepsi. Więc ta zmiana z hierarchicznej autoryzacji do umożliwienia i porozumienia, myślę, jest naprawdę dużą.

The third area is, and I think this is a really big one I touched on a second ago, is leaders who understand that the shift here is from process execution to increasingly project guidance. I I talked about the new work operating system. I think less and less are we going to see work being bound up in processes, in tightly defined, highly scripted, orchestrated processes that are often inflexible and not suited for a volatile world where agility is at a premium, to increasingly work being organized in projects and work becoming much more human centric. Jak wiesz, John, widzimy to nawet w środowiskach fabrycznych i dystrybucyjnych, gdzie starych czasów produktów, które ciągle przerabiają się na linii złożonych, dają sposób produktowi i talentowi, którzy są w środowisku, roboty, które płyną do tego produktu i zmniejszają zarówno wpływ realistyczny, jak i zwiększający wpływ.

John, to jest absolutnie prawda. I to jest naprawdę to, w którym, w naszej metodologii na temat dekonstrukcji, patrzymy na charakterystyki prac. I też pytamy się pytania, What is the objective function of those various tasks? You know, are we looking to eliminate errors? Are we looking to minimize variance? Are we looking to incrementally improve productivity? Are we looking to sort of, you know, truly delight and make a breakthrough? And I think that's where organizations, to your point about humanistic, right? How do we use that receptionist's core skills around empathy, care and concern, the ability to Names mentioned in the world of work without jobs.

Names mentioned in the world of work without jobs. We saw that the organizations who lead with the work, who deconstruct the work, understand the work and understand the nuances that you just talked about got to much, much higher order outcomes in terms of profitability, productivity, throughput, etc. than the ones who led with technology. Współpraca w Wielkiej Brytanii

Where do you see government being involved and responsible in supporting this new ecosystem? John, to jest naprawdę dobry pytanek. Myślę, że, i widzieliśmy to przez wieki, że z każdym zmianą ma potencjał zaakceptować nieprawidłowość. Ludzie, którzy są najlepsi, najlepsi w sposobie nawigacji tych zmian, wielu z was, słuchaczy, ludzi takich jak ty i ja, zdążają się w tych środowiskach, ale jest wiele innych ludzi, Names mentioned, John Guziak, World Economic Forum, John Boudreau.

You know, in the United States, where I'm based, and John, you're familiar with this, the degree was always viewed as this thing that democratized access to opportunity, that allowed talent that was from impoverished neighborhoods to get access to work, that allowed them to, you know, that drove social mobility. And in fact, what's happened the last 30 years is the cost of that degree has gone up. It has actually acted as a roadblock to that social mobility. And so we're seeing in many parts of the world, particularly in the US, companies and governments move away from the degree. IBM, I think more than 50% of their jobs do not have a degree requirement. The state of Maryland in the US did away with all degree requirements for all its jobs.

Mówiliśmy o pracy, o urządzeniach, o tym, co oni mogą zrobić, a także, jak powiedziałeś, o mentalności, o tych wielkich umiejętnościach, szczególnie dla liderów. Jakie pomysły byś dał? Kiedy czytałem ten książkę, jedną z rzeczy, o których ciągle mówię, jest to, że jeśli jestem nowy w świecie pracy, How in the world am I going to, you know, embrace this book? And I really enjoyed it from that perspective. You know, this idea and recognition of, you know, we're not going to be taken away, our jobs are not going to be taken away by computers, but we need to be very, very smart about the way that we actually use our human skills and capabilities. What advice would you give to our youngest listeners who are just coming out of university and who have a degree and are just getting started in this work world?

Should they start looking for certificates? Should they only be focusing on the human skills? Ravin, from your perspective, what would you suggest when you give to our youngest listeners? They're at an exciting time, right? You've acquired this degree, it's opened up some doors for you. I think the thing that you should be challenging yourself with is how do I keep learning? How do I keep expanding in the field that I'm in? How do I see connections to other fields where some of the things that I'm good at, not just my technical skills, but my My ability to think critically, my ability to innovate, my ability to communicate with empathy and my ability to bring diverse people together around a topic and let everyone feel welcome.

These aren't big things that happen all of a sudden, right John? It's the result of the accumulation of your learning and skills and relationships and how you continue to develop yourself. So I think that's the question. It's a journey of ten thousand steps, but it starts with us putting one foot in front of the other. You know, it's really exciting you said that because if you were to just tell me, you know, three years ago that John, you would have a podcast and you would have the opportunity to interview a leader of your caliber with such a fantastic book, you know, I would say you're crazy. And yet, you know, the desire to make sure that here in Central Europe we're really thinking about the future, that we're really challenging ourselves to recognize that to be on the global, you know, to be on the global place

Ravin Jesuthasan, World Economic Forum. Słuchający C-Suite Transformation, to była wspaniała rozmowa z Ravin Jesuthasan, który napisał świetny książkę o pracy bez pracy, jak zrebootować system pracowników organizacji. Jeśli patrzysz na przyszłość i chcesz wiedzieć, jak i jak to zrobić dzisiaj, to polecam tę książkę.